Okay, so we all know the editorial staff at Marvel have been making some…… let's be kind to them and say, interesting decisions over the last 7 or so years, but really I don't know what to say about this one.
http://time.com/2987551/thor-marvel-woman/
So, there is a precedent for this, al-be-it a veeeeeeery flimsy one. After the events of the Ragnarok storyline in Thors comics, Loki possesses the body of Sif for a while. But that's a very weak precedent for this sort of thing. I mean Thor is Thor, big bloke with a hammer. The only time in the original Viking legends he comes close to going TG (that's transgender for those of you who don't know) is when he cross dressed in order to sneak into the hall of some giants who had stolen his hammer from him. One has to wonder why Marvel are doing this. I'm all for having more major female heroes, but this doesn't strike me as the way to do it. I mean Thor isn't a title it's a name, it's a character. Captain America is a title, The Hulk is a title, Thor is not (not that I'm saying they need to replace Cap or Hulk with female versions, we already have one for the Hulk in She-Hulk and the last time Cap was replaced it lasted all of 5 seconds before Steve Rodgers was back in the spandex). Or we could do the smart thing and just introduce more female heroes, without screwing with established characters.
But that's not the only thing I have for you guys today. Nope from movie land we have this piece of absurdity.
So, let me get this straight, you're going to be making a comic book based superhero movie, right, with characters with 50+ years worth of backstory and history, right, but you're not going to be paying attention to any of it? Plus, to stick a dagger right into the heart of all the fans, you're not even going to be using the team name at all outside of the title? Really?
Really?
I'm done. Bye. I have nothing more to say on this matter.
Thor-as-a-woman has been done before a couple of times, so that’s not anything new, as has the “Thor’s not worth, loses hammer, someone else picks up the hammer and becomes Thor” storyline (Beta-Ray Bill anyone?). Sometimes they did both, as when Wonder Woman picks up Mjolnir in one of those crossover issues. And, as you said, Loki was turned into a woman and I wouldn’t say that’s flimsy at all — it’s in the family. It’s well-established canon that whoever wields Mjolnir becomes Thor, whether that’s a cow-skulled-alien, crippled Donald Blake, or Diana Prince. I have no problem with a repeat of the cycle, if a woman’s worth of picking up the hammer she’s Thor. Not She-Thor or Thorella, but Thor — the identity travels with the hammer.
Furthermore, Marvel’s replaced male characters with females before, notably in regards to Captain Marvel, who went from Kree soldier Mar-vell to human Carol Danvers. So again, this tactic isn’t exactly new.
As far as the Fantastic Four movies go, they are an abomination and should never be mentioned by sane humanity again. Until Marvel Studios gains control of the movie franchise back from 20th Century Fox, I think we’re doomed to more and more of these craptacular remakes. It’s really a shame.
Print is dead.
I don’t really have an opinion on Thor as a woman, it seems like a stunt more than anything else. They’ll do it for a while, and if it works out, Man-Thor will return, and the lady will het her own book. Sort of like those backdoor episodes they do on TV sometimes – introducing new characters that are intended to get a spinoff. But I don’t read the comics anymore, so the impact t o me is pretty low.
As far as the movies go, well we’re stuck. Like Jeff said, until the FF get’s back into Marvel’s hands, there’s not much we can do. The only thing you can do is to NOT see the next FF movie, and encourage everyone you know to not see it. Let it Tank. If it tanks, and Fox loses money, then they’ll want to get rid of it. Then the Mouse can swoop in and make them an offer. That’s pretty much our only chance with FF, X-men, and Spiderman. Stop seeing them until Marvel gets them back.
It all depends to me on whether Hollywood gets a good writer for it (and the writer does well.) Far too many big movies have come out and not ‘needed’ a writer or some artist type or sound editor or something. I would encourage everyone to watch everything once and then go online and rate them comparatively. Maybe if enough people who obviously HAVE watched the movies say “You did poorly, bring me one less like anything you’ve done in the past ____ or about ______ because so and so you won’t hire does it better . . . ” they’ll decide to categorize those responses as helping to define the market.
They’re business people, after all. I’m just not interested in any more remakes till I make enough money to see my movies in the theater and buy popcorn and drink and candy and the big one, a babysitter, so I can buy a ticket for my wife in the seat next to me. Frankly, I’ll probably be Netflixing all of everything until I see more brand new movies coming out from new authors that haven’t made the bestseller list six times in a row. That way I’m not so likely to feel like I just watched the same thing over AGAIN and know the endings EVERY TIME. My wife actually sometimes guesses them before me. We’re both sick of the unnecessary hype that leads nowhere about so many nothings.
Maybe my standards are just too high?
Thor? If he wields Mjolnir or not, the son of Odin is and will always be Thor. The hammer wielding substitute can never be called “Thor”. Being Thor is not something that is bestowed by a hammer. Jeff Hebert, I am sorry, I have a totally contrary opinion. The identity does not travel with the hammer. Changing Thor into a woman is just a sign that the writers don’t have any intersting stories to tell.
FF? We’re screwed. Nuff said!
As someone who’s been following the FF reboot, I think I’m one of the few who hasn’t given up hope on it yet. There’s a lot of talented people involved (as opposed to the original, which had Jessica Alba and a bunch of TV actors), and even some of the weirder pronouncements are at least intriguing if nothing else.
As far as this new development, I’m thinking that either Kate Mara misspoke or she meant something else (like “We’re making it an archetypal Fantastic Four and not basing it on any particular comics series” or “We’re going to do our own thing and not be too worried whether it fits with the comics continuity”) and just worded it really badly. As fun as it would be to fan-rage over, I highly doubt that a major studio like Fox would openly admit that their comic book movie has nothing to with the comics.
As for Thor being a woman? Meh, whatever.
Also, just found this: http://insidemovies.ew.com/2014/07/16/kate-maras-fanatastic-four/?hootPostID=7977b2c96d657a98044793bf265e3aba
Apparently it was a mistranslation or something. The movie will be based on the comics.
Thor has been someone else plenty of times. Beta Ray Bill and Thunderstrike both headlined the main Thor title, as a replacement Thor in their own right before gaining their own powers and identities. He was even a woman himself in a What If? once. Hell, in the original Marvel version, he wasn’t the real Thor, just Don Blake with a magic hammer. Being the real Norse god was a retcon. As for the mythology, I also remember when they dressed hm off as Freya and marred hm off to a giant, so it isn’t nearly as unprecedented as you seem to think.
Also, The Incredibles was a great Fantastic Four movie with no print comic basis. By all means, hate it if it comes out bad, But at least hate it for a real reason.
Jeff you forgot [Storm (Earth-904)|http://marvel.wikia.com/Ororo_Munroe_(Earth-904)] which is alternate universe version but she still used Mjolnir to destroy her copy.
Here’s an (incomplete) list of those worthy of Mjonir: http://observationdeck.io9.com/the-worthy-14-characters-who-possessed-the-power-of-th-1605439233
Personally, I still think it was cooler that Thor was a frog for a while.
As a huge fan of Norse and Germanic mythology since childhood, as someone keeps 18th century editions of Hávamál and Völuspa in a display case, and as someone who carved my own runestone just to mess with future archeologists, portraying Marvel’s Thor as a woman doesn’t bother me in the slightest.
Let’s face it, the comics are not the myths. The comics aren’t even adaptations of the myths. They are slightly loosely based on some of the concepts and names from the myths and that’s really it.
Demanding that The Mighty Thor should stay true to its “source material” is like demanding that Yu-Gi-Oh should stay true to ancient Egyptian mythology. Not gonna happen. That train left the station in 1962, and it’s not coming back.
The Fantastic Four stuff sounds pretty stupid, but I can hardly see how it could get any more stupid than the last two films.
As said I think the new Thor is gonna be to sell books and make money. Then they will brig back regular Thor and either new Thor will go on As a new hero or be swept under the rug.
As for the movies, looking at that abomination makes me miss the original 2 FF movies. The characters were much better in that. I really didn’t mind xmen or Spider-Man. The new Spider-man is doing well and I’m attached. The xmen movies are great in my opinion, and with the rest of first class it’s even better a little backwards but better. The next one is supposed to bring in the original team.
I have no problem with a female version of Thor, or having a woman able to wield Thor’s hammer (I know the name of his hammer I just don’t fell like spelling it ok!) but pandering to women by changing an icon, they did that with spider-man when they tried to make him Hispanic, and failed. Actually I think rehashing an old character and making it female is kinda lazy. Hey in fact I think you should do an all female contest on HM and send it to the clowns @ Marvel and tell them they need to be a bit more creative.
“By the Golden Gates of Gleaming Asgard, I’m gonna make those dudes eat Hammer!”
If Luke cage can be Thor, why not anyone else? 😉
That being said, and given that they’ve already mentioned that the Woman who becomes Thor is someone we already know, my guess is it’s going to be Valkyrie. {Keep it in the family, at least…}
Agreed with the various comments that this is a desperate attempt to boost sales, not a well thought-out, long term change…
In similar fashion, replacing Captain America with Sam Wilson (and casting Stephen Colbert as the new Falcon!) are going to happen, be retconned within six months or so, and quickly forgotten…
Okay, the bit about Colbert is a joke… probably… I hope…
Though his new gig with the Tonight show might give him a bit more flexibility… 😀
Jeff, yes, prior FF movies have been an abomination. They were abominations because they had too little to do with the comics, not because they were slavishly devoted to replicating the works of Lee and Kirby!
There is, essentially, one thing, and one thing only, that is so wrong with Marvel right now that it cannot otherwise be fixed, and that one thing (small ‘t’) can be summed up in two words:
Joe Quesada!
Not saying that getting rid of Mr. “Not good enough to work in the Bullpen” Quesada will improve things… Just that things will NOT improve before that happens!
Yeah, as far as I thought, regardless of the original Donald Blake origins, the guy’s name is Thor. It’s not an identity like Iron Man or Batman. His mother and father named him Thor. I will allow for the fact that Marvel has called someone else “Thor” before, but it doesn’t seem to make much sense.
Of course, despite that fact, we know the original Thor will return one day. Just like Falcon is not going to be Captain America forever. Just until we get “The Return of Steve Rogers.”
Wait, I thought they were doing a spin-off or a “what if” kind of story with a female Thor. Instead they’ll give Mjölner to some broad and give her the title of Thor?
…
That’s like if I were to call myself Elizabeth II, rightwise queen of the Commonwealth, just because I stole her hat.
So… why can’t a woman be worthy enough to hold mjonir and have the mantle of Thor?
Since that’s all it is. The original Thor Odinson will still be walking around, just she’ll have the hammer.
And… far be it from me to defend the FF movie franchise… but which issue of Avengers had Loki leading an alien invasion on earth?
Very few comic book movies are actually based on the comics. At best they’re adaptations of the characters with some storylines drawn from for inspiration. Like Iron Man 3 wasn’t based on the Extremis arc – it took elements of it, sure, but otherwise it was a unique story.
Stulte, if the Queen of England gained her office from an enchantment placed upon her Crown, it WOULD work that way, wouldn’t it? It would be STUPID, but…
“Whomsoever holds this Hammer shall gain the Power of Thor!”
Beta-Ray Bill got it that way, Storm did, Thunderstrike did, even (as I previously mentioned) Luke Cage held it for a brief period of time… So, this pare isn’t really up for negotiation, I’m afraid. It’s long-established Marvel History! So, since Thor is the Son of a King, and his power now passes to a female…
and since Marvel is owned by “The Mouse”… This means that {hold on to your proverbial hat, here…}
Thor is soon going to join Leia Organa as a Disney Princess! {You may now void the contents of your stomach…} 😉
Frevoli, not contesting that a woman could not be worthy… But, this isn’t a plot development, this is a publicity stunt, about to ‘change the Marvel Universe FOREVER’ in about the same way that “Secret Wars” did! {Sigh…}
@ WillyPete
If that’s how it works in the comics then that kind of reaffirms my opinion that they are pretty dumb. As others have said above: Thor is a name, not a title.
“Thor is soon going to join Leia Organa as a Disney Princess!”
Huh. I’m surprisingly okay with this 😛
Y;know, after further study of the new FF movie, I don’t have a problem with Jonny being played by a black dude. But why is Sue still Caucasian? This just reminds me of Will Smith being cast as a Secret Agent in Wild, Wild West: an incredibly inappropriate bit of casting just to bring in African-American dollars to the theatre. If you’re not gonna have the testicular fortitude to let Reed have a dose of Sike Lee’s jungle fever, then I hope it bombs, as it deserves to.