With the advent of the "Avengers" movie next month, I thought I'd poll you all on who you think would win between the best of the Marvel Universe against the best of the DC Universe. Unlike last time, when we posited only the original team rosters, this go-around you get to decide which group of members would go against which other group.
I'd suggest that when you put your teams together, though, that you limit yourselves to only groups that actually served at the same time. In other words, if Red Tornado and Animal Man never served in the JLA at the same time, you couldn't have them both on the list.
Of course, since every single character in the DCU has been on the Justice League at some point in some franchise, that could get out of hand pretty quickly. I don't think the Avengers ever had quite the roster-bloat as the JLA. So maybe a second rule should be "equal numbers only". In other words, no fair putting all 568 members who were in the League during the "Unlimited" animated series against twelve Avengers.
In general, I think the power level of the average Marvel character is a lot lower than the power level of their DCU counterparts. And you can always try to play the "Omnipotent Superman" card if you want, but I personally think that's kind of a cop-out along with "Whoever the writers want to win". I don't want your opinion of what someone else might try to make happen, I want to know what you think. For the same reason, while I know they've fought in actual printed crossovers before, that's again what those writers wanted to happen. And a lot has changed in both universes since then.
Now have at it! Give us your rosters, and then who you think would win in the massive slugfest to follow.
I’m going with the Movie Avengers vs the Movie JLA. So, the Avengers show up for the fight. And wait. And Wait. And wait somemore. And then they realize that the JLA won’t be showing up anytime soon, and go home to watch The Dark Knight on bluray. Hey, at least Warner Bros. cares about Batman.
I agree with Dan on the movie factor. I thought about team rosters, but every time I considered how Batman could trump any Avengers team single handedly with nothin’ but Batman Underoos on… well, the JLA always wins. This is how Wayne maintains fi$cal superiority. Anywho, to reiterate how much the roster doesn’t matter to me, here’s the cover to Avengers/JLA #4 (of4). Supes on. Nuff said? I think not:
Wolverine is a member of the Avengers. Ergo whoever is writing the crossover would simply have Wolverine recover from ludicrous damage (Reduced to his atomic components by Firestorm? No problem. Wolverine has a healing factor. Plus I’m pretty sure one of his atoms landed on a magic crystal or something. HEALING FACTOR.) and gut everyone while mumbling something about “Being the best he is…”, to be released with no less than seventeen variant covers as well as multiple tie-in issues and miniseries leading up to, running concurrently with, and focusing on the aftermath of the event.
Straight up Avengers all the way here. Taking the movie roster of Cap, Iron Man, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Hulk and Thor, I feel it’s a pretty solid team. So there’s six of them there, i’d say six of DC’s: Supes, Batman, Aquaman, Wonderwoman, Green Lantern and The Flash to go up against. Again a solid team, everyone has their own part. Thor is a good match for Supes with the whole Godhood and magic deal. I could break it down but in the end i’m still voting for my favourites: the Avengers
DC all day, we have Superman and Martian Manhunter (a shapeshifting superman) and the Dr. Amazo’s golden Andriod
It would come down to Captain America (as scrawny Steve Rogers), Thor and Wolverine on the Avengers side and Batman, Captain Marvel, Green Lantern and Wonder Woman on the Justice League side. Batman would just inject Cap with an Anti-Super Soldier Serum causing him to revert back to the skinny asthmatic kid. Captain Marvel and Thor end up in a stalemate and just pick off all the others that Batman, Wonder Woman, GL and Wolverine don’t get to first. Wolverine pretty much just keeps coming back through miraculous circumstances. GL has the ring to take out anyone that he can find by outnumbering them with giant green plastic army men and a green Taz from Looney Tunes (it’s ok because Warner Bros owns DC.) Wonder Woman has the strength, speed, near-invulnerability and the magic lasso. With 4 against 2 and a half (the half being Steve Rogers), the Justice League wins this one.
Far be it for me to question Batman’s infallible planning for everything, but how exactly is Batman supposed to research how to counter the Super-Soldier Serum, when no written notes exist on it? I admit, the idea of anyone doing research without keeping exhaustive written notes (with duplicate backups) is completely implausible, but if Dr. Erskine’s super-soldier research was left in hardcopy, there would be hundreds or thousands of Captain America-type soldiers running around.
I had previously said the Avengers would win, and I stand by that. Basically, I have Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and the Flash against Thor, Captain America, Iron Man, Wolverine, and Ms. Marvel, and all it takes is Thor using his immense magic to smite Superman in 3 panels, at which point the rest of JLA craps their spandex.
I had forgotten that Thor’s magic can harm Superman, and I do love avengers a lot more than JLA, but I still have to give it to JLA. I’d go with a battle of the originals (at least I think the originals). Avengers have Thor, Ironman (the original clunky gold version), Hulk, Giant/Antman, and The Wasp. JLA has Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, Green Lantern, Aquaman (shudders), and the Flash. The way I see it happening, the battle is no taking place in the water, so Aquaman just sits there and waits to die. Superman’s speed lets him dash in and take Ironman’s attention. GL uses his power ring to trap Thor in a giant cube, forcing his hammer out of his hands. In I believe a minute, Thor is one again mortal doctor. Meanwhile Flash runs around and around Hulk, thoroughly pissing him off but mainly stalling for time until Superman has finished beating Ironman (because no matter how awesome Ironman may be, Superman is still immune to all his gadgets). Wonderwoman has Giantman in her lasso, and Batman has Wasp in a trap of sorts. Once Superman and GL finish with their foes, they teem up, grab the super angry Hulk and launch him out of earth’s atmosphere, because they know he will only get stronger the more they fight. Sadly, JLA wins.
The JLA have a significant advantage in terms of brute strength, but the Avengers do have members that could feasibly match some of the more overpowered ones. Moondragon and Mantis are cosmic level telepaths to compete with Martian Manhunter, Pulsar has been established as being able to mimic and drain Green Lantern’s ring energy (and pre-Flashpoint DC dealt with the fallout of the JLA/Avengers crossover and the Krona egg so I can assume it’s considered canonical), Thor/Hercules/Hulk have strength levels comparable to Superman, Sersi can rearrange matter on the molecular level and has the added advantage of being an immortal and highly durable Eternal so there’s Firestorm’s match. It may not be as completely one-sided as it may seem.
The thing is the powerhouses on the JLA (Wonder Woman, Power Girl, Superman, Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern, Flash, Captain Marvel- among others) are usually ‘kitted out’ so to speak. DC Powerhouses tend to have the whole package in terms of strength/speed/invulnerability as well as proportionately powerful secondary powers (ie: MM’s telepathy and shapeshifting). So it’s hard to gauge how Avengers counterparts might fare. For instance Hulk or Hercules may have strength and durability levels to rival (at times surpass) Superman’s but he has none of the proportionate speed, senses, or other wild card abilities like flight, heat vision, or super breath. Thor is a more even match as he does possess speed and strength comparable to Superman’s with a secondary powerset to support him. I can’t seem to come to a definite decision either way.
But this is all a moot point as the Avengers have Sentry and Scarlet Witch who will just go crazy and kill everyone on both teams anyway. 😛
I’m sure that he could get a blood sample, give it to Barry who could synthesise a reverse serum and bring back to Bats. Everyone knows about Supermam’s weakness against magic, which is why Captain Marvel (Shazam!) I’d the Superman-level powerhouse left standing. Shazam could grab thor’s hammer and be the only one left as Billy Bstson would be the only one worthy of Mjolnir. Double the magic beats the purple pants off of Hulk. Kyle Rayner had no weakness against yellow that Beast or anyone can exploit. All of the others are pretty much stalemated against each other. As far as Logan goes, GL and Batman can keep him locked up.
So I am putting originals against originals. But I have to even the teams a little as the original founding member of the Avengers only had 5 members where as Justice League has 7.
So my rosters are:
For me I tried to make this fight come down to pure skill. The only real powerhouses you have are Thor (a god) and potentially Martian Manhunter (though he is allergic to fire)
My vote is…Avengers…they have a god(Thor) even if you were to put old blue(Superman) in JLA roster he is only mortal man. Where as Thor is Thor.
Um, let’s see…
Spider Woman>Wonder Woman
Well, I’d say Hawkeye and Green Arrow cancel each other out. Same with Iron Man and Cyborg. And Quicksilver and the Flash. Thor and Superman duke it out. Wolverine fights Batman. Ms. Marvel fights Green Lantern. Spider Woman fights Wonder Woman. And Captain America fights Aquaman. A dry sponge could beat Aquaman. j/k
Clearly, Spider Woman is the X-factor on the Avengers team (okay, really, it’s Wolverine). She’s tough. Sure, Batman beats Wolverine, but then he’s so worn out, mentally and physically, he’s hardly able to fight. But, I think it would be a close fight. Very close. Even Captain America versus Aquaman (he doesn’t suck as hard as everyone says).
Taking both groups at their respective nadirs, I would pit Cap’s Kooky Quartet (Captain America, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch and Hawkeye) against the Justicer League Detroit at the end of their last issue (Zatanna, Martian Manhunter and Batman), allowing that the Manhunters powers outstrip Quicksilver and the Scarlet Witch combined. Bats and Cap would square off mano-a-mano, Zatanna and the Witch would match up nicely, and the Martian would have to deal with trick arrows and super speed, both of which he would be quite familiar with.
The Martian could easily mop up all four by himself, as his raw power rivals the Big Blue Boy Scout and his mind is as sharp as the Dark Knights, but even if the Avengers lucking out by starting a fire near J’onn, T think it is they who would be the toasted ones. Bats has more gadgets than a shield and a handful of trick arrows, while Zatanna has a much wider range of powers than Wanda does, and both have trained with Superman and the Flash, who are much faster than Pietro. As long as Bruce’s smoke screen didn’t make Zatanna stutter, the Avengers would soon find themselves teleported to Tibet inside a Yeti’s cave during mating season.
Yeah, I don’t buy it. If it was that simple, how is it that neither Reed Richards nor Hank Pym (the latter of which has both ready access to Cap’s blood samples and ample time on his hands as a “part-time” superhero for the most part) been able to crack the Super Soldier Formula? Or, for that matter, why hasn’t Bats been able to concoct a beta blocker that would keep Bane from ‘roiding up ever again? Probably because it’s not that easy. Batman might as well try converting lead into gold for all the good it will do.
Thanks McKnight, I haven’t nerd raged like this in a while.
How broadly are we defining the Avengers? Main team only or spin off/satellite teams like the New Avengers as well? Dr. Strange could make things a lot more interesting against an otherwise horrifyingly overpowered Justice League line up.
Ummm….you’re welcome? Ok, so the Bat/Cap one’s a bust then. Either way, they’re probably both still standing.
Batman doesn’t convert lead to gold. Batman scares lead to gold.
Batman always wins…. that is all.
As much as I hate to say it, the JLA wins this one. DC characters are, on the whole, flawless (and boring because of it). Marvel characters, on the other hand, are riddled with character and physical flaws, which renders them vulnerable and thus defeated by their idyllic counterparts.
What are the real ramifications of science and magic in this crossover? We know that Superman has a vulnerability to magic, but that is because in the DC universe, magic and science are different. In Marvel, they are more or less the same thing. How do we reconcile this?
i vote for avenger. just because i like ’em better than Justice league
The Avengers have a Hulk.
All there is too it.
I don’t want any to cancel eachother out so here is my list
Marvel Vs. DC
Hercules Vs. Superman
Moondragon Vs. Wonderwoman
Dr. Strange Vs. Martian Manhunter
Hulk Vs. Batman
Wolverine Vs. Green Arrow
Iron Man (in his iron destroyer armor) Vs. Green Lantern
Black Panther Vs. Flash
Thor Vs. Captain Marvel
Black Panther Vs. Aquaman
Echo Vs. Black Canary
thats just what i would like to see
So it really comes down to Marvel’s Deus Ex Machina, aka Dr. Strange, versus Batman?? At what, cosmic chess? BWA-HA-Hah-haa..! Oh, man. How about a truly meaningful fight, peeps? Howzabout….
The Joker versus Galactus?
Dr. Strange would be canceled out if not out right Defeated by Dr Fate
Okay, now I want to see this. JLA/Avengers has been done pretty well before, but I really want to see what happens when the Sentry throws Superman into the sun. Dead or not, that guy needs a good butt kicking.
Since Superman gets his over the top powers from the solar radiation of a yellow star, then he would become more powerful, like he did during the Our Worlds at War storyline.
Justice League. End of story. They have Batman (whose awesome), Superman (whose…just…Superman) and the Green Lantern, aka Hal Jordon,(who has the most powerful weapon in the universe). If all else fails, even if the fight got close, Hal could just call down some of the 3600 other GL’s or maybe the Guardians themselves. Nomatter what, the Avengers have NO WAY to defeat a army of GL’s all with super powerful power rings. Plus with Batman’s intellegence and Superman’s raw power, there is no possible way the Avengers could win. And everyone keeps saying how the Avengers have the Hulk and he would beat everyone when all JLA would need to do is calm him down, which Batman could do just with some gas or giving him a shot. Justice League all the way.
Then again…while I’m talking ALL of Marvel v.s. ALL of DC…the Red Lanterns would probably go crazy and try to kill everyone so in the end it’d probably come down to a battle in space between all the Lantern Corps and it would just be a replay of the War of Light…
Then again…while I’m talking ALL of Marvel v.s. ALL of DC…the Red Lanterns would probrably go crazy and just try to kill everyone. So…in the finish…it would end up a battle in space between all the Lantern Corps and it would just be a big repeat of the War of Light.
I suppose it would go by which version of each team. Hard to say. I’m going with Avengers, though, just cuz I think the movie has a solid team and the only real-life version of the JLA I’ve ever seen is on Smallville. Not to say that it wasn’t pretty solid but they were kind of scaled down. If we’re talking comics, however, it is a tough call. Just too many incarnations of both teams. Avengers, however, always seemed to have more kick-ass members.
Ok lets look at the lineups as they now exist with the New 52 JLA and the current Avengers.
Wonder Woman Ms.Marvel/Capt. Marvel
Batman Captain America
Cyborg Spider Man
Green Lantern Iron Man
Aquaman Luke Cage
Deadman Dr. Strange
Green Arrow Hawkeye
Element Woman Spider Woman
Lady Luck? Mockingbird/Black Widow
Atom Ant Man
I think if one looks at this objectively its not an easy decision to see who wins. Despite the thought that the DC characters are way more powerful these matchups are fairly even and are hard to call. In the end I think the Marvel characters pull it off just due to their teamwork but it would be really close.