While thinking about John Byrne's "Death of Superman" classic (what, doesn't everyone spend their days thinking about decades-old superhero battles?!), I started wondering about the following Epic Question:
So even if the Hulk couldn't defeat Superman, and Superman couldn't defeat Doomsday, does that mean the Hulk couldn't beat Doomsday? Wait, that's too much like doing math.
The potential for collateral damage hampered Superman's efforts to fight Doomsday originally. When you care whether or not entire city blocks full of innocent bystanders die, that influences your tactics. Whereas the Hulk ... well, let's be kind and say that the "innocent bystander" factor isn't exactly at the top of his list.
Plus, the madder the Hulk gets, the more powerful he grows. And he'd be pretty mad after a while of Doomsday whaling on his green butt. Since the fully enraged, yet still coldly capable, Hulk was able to annihilate virtually the entire Marvel Universe in World War Hulk, you'd have to think he could, at a minimum, give the Spiked Wonder a run for his money.
On the other hand, Doomsday was designed to be the ultimate weapon, while the Hulk is largely an accident. Can purposeful design beat fortuitous circumstance?
At the end of the day, I'd have to go with the Hulk winning this one, especially if it's the World War Hulk era character.
What about you, what do you think would happen?
I say doomsday because he can die, but he comes back and can’t be killed the same way twice.
i think I would be Doomsday, because the Hulk has been taken down numerous ways, but for Doomsday, it took Supes and Darksied using the Motherbox to defeat him, tech Huld wouldn’t have, or know how to use.
HULK IS STRONGEST ONE OF ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HULK SMASH PUNY SPIKEY MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’d like to think that Hulk’s raw power would be enough to stop the creature that is Doomsday but with His skill at adaptation to attack (growing extra bone plates ect) Doomsday may force the Hulk to work with the one man he hates the most, Bruce Banner. As the 90’s “smart hulk” he may just edge out the gray Goliath and do what s.h.i.e.l.d. did to him by shooting him off into space.
Most of these superhero battles seem off to me.
You take Superman one of the most powerful superheroes ever, can easily be defeated by a 3 year old with a chunk of kryptonite, which is good for balancing the character and making him vulnerable, but makes him to easy to defeat. You take the kinds of kryptonite, and the amount readily available and Sups should be no threat to anyone, but he takes on foe after foe, capable of destroying worlds and wears them out.
Same with Hulk, his potential is immeasurable, to the point Jeff stated, “Hulk was able to annihilate virtually the entire Marvel Universe in World War Hulk”, but he’s also been beaten by a single character in single combat, who wouldn’t stand a chance against 1/3 of the characters in the Marvel Universe.
The point I’m getting at is their power levels flux too much to have one accurate winner time and again in any battle. And though it throws everything up in the air, I guess that’s what keeps the battles fun and interesting, because anything can happen.
Because Batman beat the Hulk (Whose stupid idea was that?) I’ll have to give it to Doomsday.
This one seems like an escalating irresistible force – immoveable object argument. On the one hand, you’re talking about Hulk having a virtually unlimited strength, and on the other hand, Doomsday can adapt to defeat Hulk’s methods. I’m going to chalk this one up to the idea that in the comics, in the long run, the hero always wins. The Hulk isn’t always the hero, but Doomsday is always the villain. So, on a best of three falls, Hulk ends up the victor here.
WWH was stupid, Hulk should NEVER have gotten past Doc Strange.
In any case, a sufficiently enraged Hulk should be able to last quite some time with his regeneration. And if his anger keeps growing, so will his physical ability and regeneration.
I’d say Hulk. After the entire continent they’re fighting on gets destroyed.
Hulk was defeated by Superman.
Doomsday fought Superman to a draw.
Therefore, Doomsday is stronger than Hulk.
Quod erat demonstrandum.
The only Marvel/DC crossover that comes close to being canon is JLA-Avengers.
Any other crossover was either Silver-Age Superman, or a physically weak incarnation of the Hulk (Such as the Professor)
As others have already pointed out, Doomsday’s main power is his ability to adapt to defeat. I think that if they fought, Hulk would win the first “round”, but if they clashed a second time, Doomsday would win hands-down; and since Hulk can’t come back from the dead (zombies not withstanding) the ultimate winner would be Doomsday…
Disclaimer: I’m about to piss someone off…sorry.
If the Hulk places ahead– just like Batman does in virtually any poll he’s in– it will have to be chalked up to a popularity vote. Understand me here, I love the tragic story of Dr. Banner and the Hulk; it borrows heavily from Stevenson’s “Jekyll and Hyde” with threads of Hugo’s “Les Misérables” woven throughout (…fine, the Bixby/Ferrigno or Norton/CGI interpretation then). However…
Doomsday is a remarkable evolutionary being, and enough of a savage threat to have beaten a Guardian of the Universe, Darkseid, and Superman (…not that I necessarily agree with most of those editorial decisions). The only Hulk that conceivably could present a challenge– though unlikely– is Ultimate Hulk (…re: Ultimate Human). I’ve yet to read a credible reason as to how a 616 Universe Hulk (…even Maestro or Red Hulk) could defeat Doomsday.
I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know much about Doomsday. I know he trashed what was passing as the JLA at the time, then “killed” Superman, but I don’t think I’ve read another comic with him in it. My take on this though is that you guys are looking at it like a war, not a battle. The point people are bringing up about Doomsday being able to adapt to defeat is valid, but I don’t think it would matter in terms of one fight unless the point is that Doomsday will get right back up after Hulk smacks him down. And, of coures as always, it depends on which version of the Hulk we are using. Savage Hulk wins hands down. Grey Hulk gets trounced. 90’s smart Hulk might be able to out think him, if he’s able to get distance. In the end, as TopHat pointed out, the real loser whoever lives where the fight takes place.
I’m giving this to the Hulk for one reason above all others; determination. Doomsday is bound to anger Hulk enough to get them on even ground, strength-wise, if not further. But Hulk will be far more determined to beat Doomsday into a bloody pulp, and not stop until the beast that bested Superman is nothing more than a pavement smear, and then ensure the surrounding countryside is reduced to a wasteland. Why?
Hulk. Is. Pissed.
More than ensuring Hulk gets stronger, Doomsday is also ensuring Hulk’s willingness to just not STOP.
Y’know, this whole deal where the angrier the Hulk becomes the stronger he grows is as absurd as “Batman + prep-time = unstoppable”. In fact I’m using that for the new theological paradox: “Can God piss the Hulk off so bad that he becomes so strong that he could lift the rock God created that even He couldn’t lift?”
Anyway, what if we used the Brainiac/Doomsday hybrid? A 12th level intellect more than runs laps around the Professor’s intelligence. So, one could argue that Doomsday not only out-powers, but now, out-wits the Hulk. Any Hulk.
Make no mistake, the Hulk will “win” this poll, but not because he was the superior opponent. Again, if Doomsday took down a Guardian (…which, yes, is bulls&%t), I think he could deal with the Hulk’s anger issues.
It really comes down to which one is the first to realize his opponant is pretty much harmless in outer space, and hurls him there. To paraphrase Hulk from WWH: “Go be unstoppable inside the sun.”
Relating to the featured character banner thing, I can’t find several characters, including Pau Au and Mr. Fixit, even though they’re in the banner occasionally.
In defense of my own decision to choose the Hulk (which I shouldn’t need to do), I confess I know little to nothing about Doomsday. So I researched the character. Turns out he did kill Sups. However, Sups came back and defeated him hands down. It is also mentioned that after his defeat at the hands of Sups, Doomsday became more… reluctant… in battle. That is why I gave the battle to the Hulk. His lack of reluctance (from what I know about him, which is admittedly not much more then Doomsday) would probably win him the day. I can just see him pounding Doomsday’s body into the ground until there is nothing left but a bloody smear. I just don’t see Doomsday returning from that.
Maybe it’s a bit cynical but, it seems to me that ultimately in any comic battle it comes down to what’s going to sell. The only reason for Doomsday to have “killed” Superman was to have another “Superman is Dead!” comic cover.
The mighty editorial powers called plot contrivance would determine the outcome of the battle based upon sales figures what reason and logic remained are cast to the four winds.
So, in the end, what would sell more?
We need some version of Godwin’s Law for “Who beats Who” superhero character discussions, especially involving (but not limited) to Superman, along the lines of:
I say that even though I almost made a post asking the exact same thing earlier in this thread. Maybe “Goodwin’s Law” after legendary Marvel editor Archie Goodwin?
I have to give it to Hulk.
He heals.
He heals from death.
He keeps getting stronger.
This seemed to be like a match between a punching bag that may never break (Doomsday) and a boxer that may never tire (Hulk). Don’t know what the limits are, but I give it to the one that is taking less of a beating.
Would Goodwin’s Law (purposefully spelled it “Goodwin” there) also apply to bringing up kryptonite where Superman is concerned?
*shrug* Yeah, I’ll cop to Goodwinning (but when you put it like that, doesn’t it sound like a plus?), but in the Doomsday/Hulk brawl, I don’t really see either of them winning or quiting. I could see a far distant future where the entire Earth is a ruin–the fight having crossed entire oceans with the occasional haymaker–and they’re still at it.
Neither of them wins.
However, whatever planet they’re battling on loses, guaranteed.
mushlagoo (18)
Um, no, that’s not what happened. When Doomsday finally came back Superman couldn’t defeat him a second time. That story was what established that every time Doomsday is defeated he “evolves” so he’s immune to whatever he previously fought. The only way Superman could end the fight was by using a time travel device to drag Doomsday to the end of time where he would finally be killed by entropy itself.
The Doomsday that Superman defeated later was a substandard clone of the original.
C. Baize (21)
Doomsday does all of those things. He once took an energy sword straight in the gut and healed up as soon as he yanked it back out.
@Jeff 20: Sun? Doomsday survived the heat death of the universe when one of the DC heroes (forget who) sent him forward in time as a way to defeat him (spoiler: it didn’t work)…
Actually, entropy (ie. the end of time/heat death of the so-on and so forth) is the one force that couldn’t eventually be overcome (also the borg). Doomsday only survived by being retrieved by Braniac’s acolyte (how he knew where to look I don’t know) Lex Luthor re-engineered Doomsday after his death by Imperiex, giving him kryptonian dna, and an intellect, which slowed his attacks, and made him aware of fear for the first time. THAT doomsday was weak as WWE’s Kane after he took off his mask. Since then he’s gone back to his old mindless aggression, AND died a number of times, including a beating by 50 or so Kryptonians. So he should be pretty damn strong by this point.
Given that high level Gamma irradiation has never been known to do anything but murder living things, I’d say that limitless potential is a valid idea for Hulk. Conceivably, Doomsday should be able to kill the Hulk with a single attack, but failing that, the battle would eventually lead to a standstill, as Hulk’s growing power would put them on even ground sooner or later. Any advantage would go toward the one less likely to lose focus and bank-off from the fight in pursuit of some slightly more murder-able prey. I would assume that to be the Hulk.
End of the day though, all spectators will probably be dead as will the planet on which this battle occurs.
forgot to check the followup comments box.
I agree with MondoGekko (29) …
“End of the day though, all spectators will probably be dead as will the planet on which this battle occurs.”
If a battle occurs in the woods and there’s nobody there to witness it ….
This discussion has evidently occured before.
http://www.statueforum.com/showthread.php?t=89419
LOL…
The Hulk is [excuse me here] a heaping pile of sh*t.
His whole driving force is a lazy, illogical and stupid mess of a plot the rivals being the single stupidest concept ever created by a human writer.
Dooms-Day is the obvious winner, popular vote, Hulk wins.
Logical vote: Hulk can die, f*ck the Hulk.
:l
I mean, I can’t sum it up better then what was already said by Joshua:
Y’know, this whole deal where the angrier the Hulk becomes the stronger he grows is as absurd as “Batman + prep-time = unstoppable”. In fact I’m using that for the new theological paradox: “Can God piss the Hulk off so bad that he becomes so strong that he could lift the rock God created that even He couldn’t lift?”
I mean really?
WHO, who thought that was a good idea?
Unless it is a god, NO GOD MODDING.
And the Hulk has died, like…. five times.
And unlike the Hulk, the times DoomsDay comes back made sense! Besides, didn’t BatMan kick Hulk’s butt?
Like really, really bad to boot?
As much as I am a fan of The Hulk I would say Doomsday would win this hands down. Hulk has the immense strength/ duribility ect and is smart in human form but thats about it. Doomsday has all that and has the bone things and can shoot out bones from his hands that have venom that is wicked and can breathe fire. Not to mention if anyhting ever does hurt or kill him he just comes back immune to that and even stronger. Only thing he couldn’t escape was the end of time.
Unless things have changed, as far as I’m aware Hulk still has to eventually revert to Banner. All Doomsday would have to do is leave the battle, wait for Hulk to become Banner, come up behind him so he doesn’t know what’s about to happen, and waste Banner in one blow.
On the other hand, if Hulk no longer has to revert to Banner then this becomes a very tough one because those first few blows are just going to ***** Hulk off. So unless You can get Hulk so angry that his own anger eventually blows his mind, killing him, Hulk would probably end up taking down Doomseday.
“Can God piss the Hulk off so bad that he becomes so strong that he could lift the rock God created that even He couldn’t lift?”
Carlin fan. Gotta be. Class Clown is such a classic
I’m afraid I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with some of the eloquently worded anti-Hulk arguments I’ve read here and state for the record I think Hulk is a nuanced character with a long and rich history. Doomsday on the other hand is a one-dimensional hackneyed sales gimmick who looks like a sheep-dog made of icicles. A character’s
“character” should count for something so never mind the potentially limitless strength, invulnerability, healing factor, and vicious cunning, Hulk should win for no other reason than the fact that he’s not Doomsday.
But this poll should really be about me. I’ll prove why using the same argument a lot of people have used to demonstrate their point, namely “Character A beat character B and character B beat character C so character A should be able to beat character C.” Batman’s win against Superman counts even though it involved preparation and gadgets rather than a straight up fight. Thefore, Superman’s win against Doomsday using a gadget to send him to the end of time still counts. Ergo, Superman can beat Doomsday and therefore by logical extension Batman can beat Doomsday. The Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Two-Face, and Mad-Hatter have all overcome Batman and rendered him temporarily helpless at least once. Since that same scenario counted as a win when Batman fought Superman, that means each of those characters “beat” Batman and therefore can beat Superman and Doomsday. But that’s just a digression. The Royal Flush Gang (my favorite villians by the way and I will never forgive Bruce Timm for how he portrayed them in the cartoons) have rendered Batman and Superman helpless and even comatose on more than one occasion, therefore we can assume they could also defeat Doomsday. Booster Gold has defeated the Royal Flush Gang on serveral occasions, therefore we can can assume Booster Gold could defeat Batman, Superman, and Doomsday. Here’s the good part. With the proper preparation and equipment, I could sneak up on Booster Gold, whack him on the noggin with a 2×4, and render him helpless, thereby proving by logical extension I could defeat the Royal Flush Gang, Batman, Superman, and Doomsday. Come to think of it, keeping in the modern comics’ tradition of “dark and gritty realism” I would have to kill Booster Gold because, you know, nothing says intellectual sophistication like gratuitious murder. Anyway, I have just proven I am the most powerful being in the DC Universe.
But let’s go back to the Hulk. Booster Gold beat the Royal Flush Gang who beat Superman who beat the Hulk, therefore I could beat the Hulk. Hulk beat Dr. Strange during WWH, so by logical extension I could beat Dr. Strange who in turn was able to render Galactus temporarily helpless on at least one occasion. Because of his godlike power, intelligence, and resources, with sufficient “preparation and equipment” Galactus could potentially defeat any foe. Since I could beat Booster Gold, the Royal Flush Gang, Superman, Hulk, Dr. Strange and therefore by logical extension Galactus who could beat everybody else, I am the most powerful being in the Marvel Universe.
I almost hate to ask, but …
If a victory relies upon utilization of a particular weakness (kryptonite to defeat Superman, anti-gamma beams for Hulk, etc.), does that not negate the idea that if I can beat person A and they can beat person B, I can beat person B?
If I were capable of using a well placed 9mm round to take out Batman, and he used a well placed chunk of kryptonite to take out Supes, that does not equate to: I can take out Supes with a well placed 9mm round (unless, it was made of Kryptonite, and unlike Waynecorp, I don’t have access to any).
I would just like to say (Assuming that I am not to late to this post) that I think doomsday would win. I no almost nothing about Doomsday, however I choose him because a)he looks badass, and b) if he was indeed designed as the ultimate weapon, then it stands to reason that he is controlled, and doesn’t just wander around. This being the case, I believe that Doomsday would fight Hulk on his terms in a way that suits him. he would probably know about hulks anger power’s and sneak up on him and nail him with a quick barrage Hulk cannot get up from. bottom line is, I think if they did fight, Doomsday would come up with a plan before hand that would be sure to waste hulk.
NGpm – Yeah, that’s the point I was trying to make. One victory under a specific set of circumstances doesn’t equate to A beat B and B beat C so A can beat C.
May I add my good sirs, that no matter what, it is utterly impossible for Hulk to win? He may win round one, but, Doomsdays would come back until the Hulk died, oh, or he could just rip off Banner’s head and chuck the lifeless corpse into a volcano.
😀
Sorry, Joel, but most of the time, Doomsday does indeed just wander around. Well, wander around and attack things. Sometimes he’s kind of crafty, but mostly he’s just aggressive and pointy. A planner, he ain’t.
Hulk generally ain’t the master strategist either. Two wandering disaster areas … what would you have to do to get these two together? “Hey Hulk, you wouldn’t believe what Doomsday said about your mother!”