Poll Position: Mutant vs. Alien

I'm enjoying the discussion on these "Versus" polls, so this week we're going with:

{democracy:185}

A lot of the debate, I feel sure, will center around which version of each side we're talking about. Silver Age Superman was basically God in a cape, and could do pretty much anything he wanted. Any version of the X-Men would probably get wiped out in seconds by that guy. Unless they had Magik (Illyana Rasputin) on the roster. Given Silver Age Superman's vulnerability to magic, that could be a bit more interesting. I'm not totally familiar with Magik's powers, so if you can think of a way she could level the playing field enough for her teammates to have a chance, let us know.

If we're talking post-Crisis Superman (when his power set was knocked down quite a few pegs), things get interesting. Which X-Men roster are we talking about? If we're stuck with the likes of Jubilee and Cannonball, well, that again probably won't last long. But Phoenix was a world-class power back in the day and I think could knock Supes around quite a bit. If Rogue could get close enough, that's a major game-changer right there. Plus, given their teamwork tactics, I think they'd have a real shot.

The main guy left out, of course, is Wolverine, since adamantium can't cut through Kryptonian skin, I wouldn't think.

So head to comments and make your case, folks, I look forward to the discussing and the analyzing and the frothing and the hoo-hoo and the hey-hey!

(Image via Geek Force Five, where they had a round-robin tournament a couple of years ago. They had the X-Men winning, by the way.)

57 Responses to Poll Position: Mutant vs. Alien

  1. Illyana could take Supes, provided he didn’t just waylay her at the speed of light.
    Nightcrawler, if he could teleport to him and grab him, teleport, and leave him in the hell dimension…
    Rogue, of course… IF she could touch him.

  2. Everyone else would be pretty much useless.
    Cyclops could unleash the full power of his optic blast, and Supes wouldn’t even feel it.
    Superman would turn Colossus inside out.
    Same with Wolverine.
    Jubilee… hahahaha!!!
    Cannonball… see Jubilee above.
    Beast… nothing.
    Gambit, same as Cyclops… he could hit Superman with everything he had and not scratch him…. on the other hand, he MIGHT be able charge Superman’s costume and cause it to explode… Hm… does his charging ability work on flesh? Like… could he charge Superman’s body and cause him to explode?
    How does Superman cope against telekinesis (Jean Grey) or telepathic mind control (Xavier)?

  3. This reminds me of the old Wizard magazine X-men vs. Iron Man debate. Since there is such a wide varity of X-Men, can we maybe set it to a specific version of the team? Basiclly, though, all it would take would be either Jean, Xaiver or Emma and Supes goes down. If Cyclops isn’t taken out early, he tells the telepath to take Supes out, fight over. If we don’t want to go for the cheap way out, and go for an actual fight, Supes can pretty much take down most of the team no prob. As far as Wolverine goes, Supes lets him get in close, and either throws him into orbit, or flys him up and lets him go. Or Supes keeps him at bay and fries the crap out of him with the heat vision. No matter what, Wolverine is a non-threat.

    Or he could just make a bunch of duplicates and throw a plastic S at them.

  4. mightysamurai

    Assuming we’re talking about a fair fight where the X-Men know Superman’s powers and weaknesses and Superman knows theirs, Superman would easily win through creative application of his powers. None of the X-Men can move nearly as fast as Superman, none of them are as strong as Superman (Supes has beaten the Hulk in a fight before and he’s supposed to be the physically strongest being in the entire 616 universe), and none of them can match the range that Superman can attack from with his telescopic vision.

    The only X-Man who would pose a credible threat to Superman would be a powerful telepath like Xavier. And even then, there’s a limit to how far he can extend his telepathy. According to Wikipedia that limit is about 250 miles. That’s just a mile or two past the edge of Earth’s atmosphere. Superman could hang out 260 miles above Xavier and use his telescopic vision and heat vision in tandem to bombard the X-Men from orbit.

  5. mightysamurai

    And no using the Phoenix Force. That’s just cheating.

  6. C. Baize (1 & 2): In the late 90’s Gambit was briefly able to charge flesh, so he might be cool with say an ear. Also, not very good against telepathy (think of Maxwell Lord.)

    As far as Wolverine goes, since adamantium is unbreakable and can (as it has been stated a multitude of times) cut through anything, pretty sure he could do some damage. I mean Doomsday cut him up pretty bad and his protrusions were basically bone. Beast or Forge could probably come up with something that works about the same way as Kryptonite radiation. And then there’s Jean Grey as Phoenix, or especially as Dark Phoenix could probably take him. If we’re going into the Uncanny X-Men of the last 5-10 years, then how about Juggernaut with the Gem of Cytorak (not sure of spelling), ’cause that thing was purely magic-based.

  7. The x-man that has the best chance is Jubilee. Now hear me out. Superman is a flying boyscout. The last thing he is going to do is hit a girl. Now that she has no powers she is no threat. This leaves her wide open to use the piece of Kryptonite she stole from Batman as she was having sex with Night Wing at Wayne Manor. Long story but it all works because she has the skills and Robin would tap that.

  8. Actually Jeff, Adamantium could cut through Kryptonian flesh. The problem with it is that it would basically require someone with the strength of the Hulk behind it to make it happen, so Wolverine is still a non-factor.

    Actually, now that I think about it, Hulk vs. Superman might be more interesting than this match-up.

    I think way back when, when the Poll Position question was super-team vs. every other super-team, I ended up breaking down the match-ups as being essentially about powerhouse vs. powerhouse, and came to the agreement that the X-Men would only survive if Jean Grey was Phoenix. Otherwise, the X-Men were toast, and even without the rest of the JLA behind Supes, I don’t see this changing. Yes, Rogue could be a factor if she managed to get her hands on Superman. Yes, Magick could could do something, but her powers were not that great. Unless she managed to cast Superman into Limbo, she really wouldn’t be much help; this isn’t like throwing Dr. Strange or Dormammu against him. Xavier would have more luck contacting Lilandra and bringing in the Shi’ar military in to defeat Superman than assaulting him with psychic bombardment. I’m really not finding a big reason to side with the mutants on this one. If they managed to beat Superman, it would be through chance and dumb luck.

  9. Phoenix could curbstomp him, Xavier could curbstomp him…

    But everyone else gets taken down.

  10. Supes. ‘Cuz he would rotate the Earth backwards, thus reversing time (what!?) past the point where the X-Men became so excrutiatingly annoying that I cringed going into a comics shop. So, we’re talking 1977. Superman then hangs out in the upper atmosphere, uses super-breath to freeze Xavier out of commission (hope he didn’t have onions for lunch), followed by flicking the rest of the team away with his pinky. Then he’s off to the Earth, Wind and Fire concert to file an entertainment report for Perry White 30 years before it’s due.

    No contest.

  11. A team of Omega-level mutants (Jean Grey, Iceman, Legion, Elixir, Franklin Richards, and Sinister-enhanced Gambit) all might stand a chance, but otherwise I have to give Supes the V on this one.

  12. Ok whoever chose Superman you are wrong, here’s how:
    NightCrawler can teleport to a place with kryptonite
    Wolverine cannot die
    Professor X can read minds to see what superman can do.
    Rogue can absorb his powers and use it against him

  13. @Novak (7) I’ve always said that Nightwing is the biggest man-whore in comics (2nd runner up is Daredevil), but even he wouldn’t bang Jubilee. Man’s gotta have SOME standards.

  14. DiCicatriz

    Superman was brainwashed into nearly killing Wonder Woman by Max Lord, who is nowhere near the telepath that Jean Grey, Professor X, or Emma Frost is. If a B-List telepath like him can cause Superman to go against every moral fiber of his being, he wouldn’t stand a chance against either of them. Granted that might be their only saving grace considering the team doesn’t have anybody to compete with Superman on a pure strength level. The problem is Superman can move fast enough to make the telepaths inconsequential. I’m thinking the X-men might have to sacrifice a few members to buy Jean (not even necessarily Phoenix level) or Prof X time to shut his brain down. Again this would be a purely telepathic assault as telekinetically injuring his brain is out of the question (as established when Manchester Black noted that even the capillaries in Clark’s brain were like ‘tiny tubes of concrete’)

    Also I wouldn’t count Cannonball out completely, he did fight Gladiator (with comparable power levels to Superman) and managed to absorb a full force blow using his kinetic energy field. Granted his victory in that battle counted on the psychological confidence mechanism failing to reinforce Gladiators abilities, but he could put up s better fight than other X-men.

    There are a number of creative ways the X-men could kill Superman. If Jean, Prof, or Emma are able momentarily immobilize him or even slow him down to even half speed, Northstar (who might arguably be faster than Supes) could fly Kitty over to him have her phase an arm through his head and solidify. There’s no coming back from having a person’s limb molecularly bonded through your brain, not even for him. Heck if Deadpool was there to chuck young x-woman Loa at him like he did to the transmode zombies in Necrosha Superman would just fall apart at the molecular level. If Iceman ever used his powers to his full potential, he could freeze every molecule in Superman’s body to Absolute Zero. Hell, anybody remember Triumph from JLA? He had electromagnetic manipulation abilities which even Superman said had the capacity to cut him off from his solar charge and kill him. Magneto, currently a member of the X-men on Utopia, or even Polaris could easily do just that.

    You might argue that these scenarios all depend on Superman not being able to react in time to these assaults which is incredibly unlikely. But even if the telepaths (Emma, Prof, Jean, the Cuckoos, Karma, Psylocke, anybody really…) couldn’t hold him, think of members like Dazzler or Siryn and how effective their abilities would be against somebody with super senses like Superman. Not to mention the variety of characters with access to various magics (Magik, Pixie, Nightcrawler, Forge, Moonstar) If all else fails have Lila Cheney teleport Superman into the nearest red star and have a special Lila Cheney: Requiem collector’s issue to commemorate her sacrifice 😉

    This is not to discredit Superman’s sheer power. He could triumph but it’s not impossible for the X-men to take him out either, especially with such a wide range of characters and powersets available to them.

  15. mightysamurai

    Actually, now that I think about it, Hulk vs. Superman might be more interesting than this match-up.

    Already done. Hulk lost.

  16. The outcome of the fight depends entirely on how much plot induced stupidity Superman is going to be burdened with. Too much power has always been the biggest problem in all Superman stories as it forces writers to compensate by turning him into a complete idiot that always gives his opponents the opportunity to attack first for the sake of having atleast a little suspence. X-men are heavily underpowered compared to him, but if Superman stops to give his usual give-up-nicely-speech while standing in one place like a statue, they can device and execute a plan to take him down.

  17. mightysamurai

    think of members like Dazzler or Siryn and how effective their abilities would be against somebody with super senses like Superman.

    …Which would be relevant if it had ever been established that Superman’s supersenses could be “overloaded” by too much light or sound. I daresay a guy who can stand survive a nuclear explosion and stifle a grenade by clenching it in his hands can handle loud noises and bright lights.

  18. Myro (8): It could work out actually. Just have Wolvie and Colossus teamup with a Fastball Special and you’re golden. At that velocity and with the weight of Logan’s adamantium skeleton factored in it would be just about right. That’s assuming of course, that Superman is otherwise occupied fighting off somebody like Phoenix, Cable or Bishop at the time. If not, then Logan might as well be a flying barbecue for all the good it’ll do him.

  19. Well if we go with the roster with Cannonball on it the X-Men definitely take it. I mean it seems like everyone is forgetting that Cannonball defeated Gladiator (which is like Marvel’s version of Superman). And Jean Grey could beat him because you can’t hurt what you can’t touch so all she has to do is keep him at bay with some telekinesis and literally crush him. Darwin would be an interesting fight, unless his powers just teleported him away, though on the other hand they could just alter his physiology and make him into some being composed of various types of Kryptonite. The Age of Apocalypse version of Nightcrawler could do it just by teleporting his head by itself (yes he did do that). Magik could just kill him before he even got there (because Jean or Prof.X could sense his mind from a mile away). I could go on like this for a while but these are just a few examples.

  20. mightysamurai

    Ok whoever chose Superman you are wrong, here’s how:
    NightCrawler can teleport to a place with kryptonite
    Wolverine cannot die
    Professor X can read minds to see what superman can do.
    Rogue can absorb his powers and use it against him

    Brandon you are wrong, here’s how:
    NightCrawler can only teleport 2 miles at a time, and kryptonite doesn’t exist on the 616 Earth anyway
    Even if he can’t die Superman can still fling Wolverine into space or to another continent
    Professor X’s telepathy has a maximum range of about 250 miles, while Superman’s heat vision has no known range limit
    Rogue has to touch Superman to get his powers, and Supes is much faster than her

  21. does the fact Superman cant die without kryptonite mean anything in this battle?
    But i can imagine Cyclops using a kryptonite ray

  22. Hey, speaking of Superman and mindcontrol, does anyone remember when he was brainwashed into making a porno with Big Barda? If some two-bit lame-o can make him do that, just imagine what Emma would do to him.
    http://www.cracked.com/article_17626_the-5-creepiest-sex-scenes-in-comics.html

  23. Me, Myself & I

    OK, once again, the specifics of the battle will definately influence the outcome. Which Superman version, which X-Men members, it is an arena style fight or garilla warefare, etc.

    If we don’t know about the specifics I have to give it to the X-Men. There is something to be said for teamwork. Sure, one on one Superman is more than a match for most of the X-Men. The thing is that the X-Men do work as a team. I image they would certainly suffer some casualties but in the end would find a way to win.

  24. Dan (22): NOOOOOOOOOOO! I remember watching Linkara’s review for that one on his Atop the 4th Wall vlog, and…ewwww, the ick just won’t wash off!

  25. Me, Myself & I

    Dan (22) that is just wrong in so many ways. Yup, I definately got to give it to the X-men now.

  26. Thylonicus

    Normally I’d go into a long tangent about why one would win–but in this case, the X-Men would win against Superman ’cause eff Superman, that’s why.

    Terrible character. Simply abysmal.

  27. Blazing Tornado

    Superman. He’s got a great moral ground, while the X-Men let a sociopath like Logan strut around doing whatever the hell he pleases.

    One of Supes’ main vulnerabilities is magic, and X-Men aren’t magic. Superman defeated The Elite, a bunch of dickish, extremely powerful anti-heroes, using his brains and without ever once breaking his moral grounds. The X-Men, by comparison, would be child’s play since aside from Little Psycho Runt Logan, they also don’t kill.

    Heck, I’m pretty sure he could defeat the X-Men by knocking Logan out cold and then lecturing the others about how amoral it is to just let this little creepo hang around like he runs the show and take little teenage girls on extremely perilous missions all alone. The rest would all run home in shame.

  28. DiCicatriz

    I’m telling you once any of the telepaths get even a cursory reading about the kind of guy Superman is, Colossus or Northstar just chuck Loa into the air. Superman moves in for the save and she phases through him, causing him to dissolve into mush. 8)

  29. Blazing Tornado

    “I’m telling you once any of the telepaths get even a cursory reading about the kind of guy Superman is, Colossus or Northstar just chuck Loa into the air. Superman moves in for the save and she phases through him, causing him to dissolve into mush. 8) ”
    Our heroes, ladies and gentlemen!

  30. William A. Peterson

    By the way, Jeff, most versions of Illyana don’t have much in the way of ‘actual’ Magic to call on…
    Those that do tend to be reluctant to use it anywhere outside of Belasco’s home dimension, because she isn’t very good with it in Earth’s dimension.
    I’m not sure who ‘Loa’ is, but if she’s a mutant, she’s NOT magical!
    Nightcrawler, et al, don’t likely know where any Kryptonite is, and, hey, if it were THAT easy, Lex would have killed Clark decades ago!
    As to Wolverine being unkillable… So?
    It’s not “Who is most likely to commit murder for no good reason?”, but “Who would win?” Supes doesn’t HAVE to kill Logan…
    He just has to let Professor X read his mind, realize that Supes is twice the man that any of the X-Men will ever be, and then it’s over. The X-Men and Supes go after the REAL troublemaker, who is likely in very deep trouble at that point! :->

  31. Not holding back, Superman easily takes them out. Anyone he doesn’t fry from miles away he can smash to a pulp at super speed.

    Even assuming each side has full intel on the other, Superman can take out the major threats (the telepaths, magic wielders) from afar and then move in at his leisure to sweep up the rest.

    The X-Men have a far better chance if neither side knows the capabilities of the other and they just stumble into each other. If the telepaths aren’t there to control Superman then forget about it though.

  32. I’ll give my vote to Superman, mightysamurai, if you can point to a single fight in the last twenty years in which Superman opened with his entire powerset instead of just slugging things at normal speed until that failed to yield a result. I mean, assuming this is the first time they’ve fought, do you really see him heat-beaming them all from orbit before saying hello? Even aside from his moral code, the man is lazy. He just will not bother to use any powers but flight and strength unless he absolutely has to–which gives the X-Men an opening.

    (Plus, dude routinely loses to a guy in a furry suit with no superpowers. I would argue that should never happen, but it’s canon, so what can you do?)

  33. Sean Murphy

    I would go with John Byrne’s Man of Steel version, the least powerful version of Superman (no time travel, no faster than light travel, needs to hold his breath to survive in space, only strong enough to lift the Great Pyramid of Giza) versus the version of the X-Men that I grew up with – Cyclops, Colossus, Banshee, Nightcrawler, Storm, Wolverine, Ariel/Shadowcat and Phoenix. The only one that was even an issue was Phoenix. But she had her won limitation when I was reading X-Men – she was still getting used to the new powers, and had no stamina. She was curbstomping Proteus and ran out of steam, getting her head handed to her by him as a result. I think the same thing would happen with Superman, whose stamina is superhuman. Her power would hold him back, nearly defeat him, and then feedback from his own strength would knock her out. Scott would scream/wail with grief and slam the Man of Steel, Colossus would confidently attack in armored form, Wolverine would go berserk, Nightcrawler would attempt to sneak attack him – and none of it would matter.

  34. Sean Murphy

    I would go with John Byrne’s Man of Steel version, the least powerful version of Superman (no time travel, no faster than light travel, needs to hold his breath to survive in space, only strong enough to lift the Great Pyramid of Giza) versus the version of the X-Men that I grew up with – Cyclops, Colossus, Banshee, Nightcrawler, Storm, Wolverine, Ariel/Shadowcat and Phoenix. The only one that was even an issue was Phoenix. But she had her won limitation when I was reading X-Men – she was still getting used to the new powers, and had no stamina. She was curbstomping Proteus and ran out of steam, getting her head handed to her by him as a result. I think the same thing would happen with Superman, whose stamina is superhuman. Her power would hold him back, nearly defeat him, and then feedback from his own strength would knock her out. Scott would scream/wail with grief and slam the Man of Steel, Colossus would confidently attack in armored form, Wolverine would go berserk, Nightcrawler would attempt to sneak attack him – and none of it would matter.

  35. That’s a good point X-Stacy, he even said as much in the Doomsday: Hunter/Prey trade. Part of why Doomsday was able to kill him was his overconfidence in his physical abilities (which I don’t really blame him for considering he’s SUPERMAN), causing him to switch it up with heat vision and Mother Box weaponry when they had their rematch.

  36. spidercow2010

    As usual, I’m too out of touch with the mercurial permutations of the manifold powers & abilities of the multitudinous habitues of the sundry comix multiverses to offer an intelligent opinion on this. I just want to point out the obvious editorial slant manifested in the choice of illustrations at the top of this poll: a distinctly Liefeldian XMen doodle vs. a classic Alex Ross painting. Really, Jeff, not overly subtle…

  37. mightysamurai

    I mean, assuming this is the first time they’ve fought, do you really see him heat-beaming them all from orbit before saying hello?

    Well if we’re assuming that it’s not only the first time they’ve fought but they also know nothing about each other, then why would any of the X-Men think to use any of the anti-Superman tactics other commenters have listed? Why would they bring a telepath or a magic-user to take him down if they don’t know he’s vulnerable to telepathy and magic? If neither side knows the others’ capabilities, then logically the X-Men would also approach it as if it’s just a straight-up slugging match (which is what they do in most cases). In which case Superman would dominate them all with his vastly superior speed and strength.

    You can’t have it both ways. If we’re assuming the X-Men know enough about Superman’s weaknesses to think up special tactics to use against him, then to make it a fair fight we must also assume Superman knows all their weaknesses as well. In which case he would use heat vision to bombard them from orbit. Not to kill them, just to incapacitate them or pin them down. Which, I might add, is a tactic he HAS used in the past against supervillains, so it’s not like he’s never thought of it before.

    Even aside from his moral code, the man is lazy. He just will not bother to use any powers but flight and strength unless he absolutely has to–which gives the X-Men an opening.

    So what? The X-Men do exactly the same thing. How many X-Men fights have started off with Colossus or Wolverine or some other brawler charging at the bad guy and getting knocked through a building? How many X-Men fights has Professor X not gotten involved with even when he could have used his telepathy to make the bad guy fall instantly asleep?

    And again, your scenario ONLY works if you assume a patently unfair fight where the X-Men know Superman’s strengths and weaknesses but he doesn’t know theirs.

    I still maintain that the ONLY X-Men who pose any threat to Superman are the strong telepaths and the magic users (assuming for a moment that magic from an alternate universe would even work on Superman). But the X-Men would not bring these mutants to the fight if they don’t know Superman’s vulnerabilities. How do I know this? Simple. Because if it was standard practice for the X-Men to lead with their telepaths and magic users, they would do it all the time. And yet they don’t. How many X-Men fights could have been solved in an instant by a telepath taking control of the bad guy’s mind? How many fights could have been solved by a magic-user mutant teleporting the bad guy’s weapons out of his hands and then teleporting him into a jail cell? It’s not their standard practice to put telepaths and magic-users on the front lines except in special circumstances. And if they don’t know Superman is vulnerable to magic and telepathy, then they wouldn’t think to lead with those two things first.

    Plus, dude routinely loses to a guy in a furry suit with no superpowers.

    I would strongly contest the claim that he “routinely loses” unless you’re talking about no-longer-canon Silver or Golden Age stories. He’s been temporarily slowed down by unpowered supervillains (mostly because he’s holding back so he doesn’t kill them), but losing fights? That doesn’t really happen unless kryptonite is involved, which the X-Men have no access to being from a completely different universe and everything.

    Also, the X-Men routinely get the crap beaten out of them by giant robots. Superman wouldn’t even consider a giant robot to be a decent workout.

  38. @spidercow (36) Liefeldian doodle? That’s Jim Lee, arguably the best artist to ever work on X-Men. Just sayin’. 🙂

    @mightysamurai (37) As to why they would bring a telepath, um, because it’s kinda their thing? Almost every version of the X-Men has had a telepath on it. It’s not like they just say, “Hey Emma, wait in the jet until we know who we are fighting.” The only one who usually hangs in the back is Xavier, for obvious reasons. So, it’s not that they would just bring a telepath for that specific battle.

  39. I’m not assuming the X-Men know anything about Superman, mightysamurai. I’m assuming that in the twenty-minute knock-down drag-out where they realize they’re getting slaughtered without hurting Superman, they’ll try the telepaths–just as they do when they fight Juggernaut. And I’m assuming they’ll probably try the telepaths before Superman bothers to use any of his other powers, because when Superman is winning, he doesn’t use any of his other powers.

    As to why the X-Men would bring their telepaths or magic users…well, they’d probably bring them because they’re on the team. That’s kind of how teams work. I mean, the New Mutants used to drag Cypher to every fight, and the only thing he could do was talk to people. All Angel could do before Apocalypse got hold of him was fly, and yet he would go down into the Morlock tunnels with the rest of the team. Jubilee followed Wolverine around everywhere when she was introduced, and she was damn near useless in every situation.

    And, by the by, when I was reading X-Men, it seemed like most of the people they ran into had some resistance to telepathy (or had access to psi-screams or some other device to screw with telepaths) to make the fights drag on longer. It’s not that the telepaths weren’t there, or that they weren’t trying to help. They’d get a throw-away line at the start to the effect that “I can’t read his mind!” or “He’s shielded from my telepathy!” and that would be that unless somebody found a way to get past the block. Again, look at Juggernaut: the entire physical fight would be about taking his anti-psi helmet off so a telepath could put him to sleep.

    Likewise, none of their teleporters work as you suggest. Magik and Lila Cheney both have their own limitations that make them better as team transport than combat teleporters. Nightcrawler can (and of course does) combat teleport, but still can’t teleport bad guys directly to jail, even if it’s in his range, because if someone has moved a chair–or another person–into the spot he wants to teleport to, they’ll merge into one (probably dead) object.

    I’m not saying the X-Men would win the day, mightysamurai. I’m still undecided. I was asking you to convince me that Superman would, and you haven’t. Which is too bad, because I’m on-record on this very site as wanting to see Superman fling Wolverine into outer space.

    (The furry with no superpowers that Superman routinely loses to is Batman. When they fight, Superman never uses any clever tricks, or even distance attacks, and thus gets nailed with the Kryptonite–which he knows Batman has–every single time. Yes, yes, X-Men won’t have Kryptonite. At least, assuming the fight takes place in the Marvel Universe instead of the DC one, that’s true. But Kryptonite is really just a macguffin to level the playing field–like absurd limitations on powers, or odd vulnerabilities to someone else’s powers, or otherwise-vanilla villains who just happen to be totally immune to whatever a hero’s major power is, or the idiot ball a powerful hero often carries. There’s no way of knowing what random X-Man might carry a macguffin that’s similarly ridiculously effective against Superman until they actually fight.)

  40. X-Stacy (39) does bring up an interesting point. Because the two universes are separate, and use somewhat different applications of physics in regard to superpowers, there is no way of knowing, for example, if Cyclops’ eye beam, let`s say, mimicked the effects of the red sun. I mean, this is just a “what if” scenario, but it would be an interesting, and completely unforeseen, problem for Superman.

    I was discussing this with a friend, and he did point out, while it would be terribly out of character, Jean as Phoenix (if she had a priori knowledge of Kryptonian physiology) could defeat Superman all by herself. All she would have to do is consume the sun, and then smack Kal-El around until he ran out of power. The end result would be everyone else dying as well, but…

    I’m still going with Superman on this one, though.

  41. mightysamurai

    Almost every version of the X-Men has had a telepath on it.

    “On the team” is different from “at the fight”.

  42. mightysamurai

    I was asking you to convince me that Superman would, and you haven’t.

    I have done it, multiple times. You, apparently, have not been listening.

    Once again, Superman’s powers outclass every single member of the X-Men other than strong telepaths and magic-users. Period. Done. End of debate. That’s how he would win.

    Unless we’re talking about an X-Men team that has a strong telepath and they know to bring that telepath into the field with them Superman wins the fight. Which I suppose illustrates why this question is somewhat pointless. If we don’t know which X-Men roster we’re talking about, we don’t know how well or how badly they’d do against Superman.

    The furry with no superpowers that Superman routinely loses to is Batman.

    Wow, you are wildly exaggerating the situation. First of all, Superman and Batman have not gotten into that many fights. It’s a myth that Superman “routinely” loses to Batman. And of the few fights they have had, only a fraction of them have been won by Batman (more have ended with Superman simply pulling out of the fight because he doesn’t want to hurt his friend), and the ones where Batman won he had to rely on special equipment to boost his strength and speed up to levels where he was marginally competitive with Superman. Equipment which the X-Men would not have and wouldn’t know how to build, find, or use even if they knew about it.

    And even then, really? You’re comparing being beaten by Batman to being beaten by the X-Men? Batman has taken on Darkseid and won. He’s the go-to guy of the DCU for all “how do I defeat villain X?” questions. Even if Batman had “routinely” trounced Superman, that’s hardly a shameful defeat. The X-Men are nowhere near Batman’s skill level. Hell, if the X-Men went up against Batman they would be begging for mercy in five minutes.

    Also, Batman is not a furry. That’s just plain slander.

  43. @mightysamurai 41, as I already said, with the exception of Xavier, the telepaths would be at the fight. There has never been a time where the told whomever the team telepath was at the time to just sit around and wait. And let’s just say for arguments sake it’s the current version of the X-Men, Emma Frost is the co-leader, and she would have Superman craddling in the fetal postion sucking his thumb faster than a speeding bullet. X-Stacy is absolutly right, 98% of the time, the FIRST thing they do is have the telepath try to get a read on the target. And while your scenario of Superman blasting them from orbit with heat vision, and killing people he knows NOTHING about makes no sense to Superman’s character, Emma would absolutly have no qualms about making Supes lose his bodily functions and cluck like a chicken. ‘Nuff said.

  44. It’s gettin’ frothy!

  45. Me, Myself & I

    I haven’t read a lot of X-Men comics; probably no more than 20 in all over my 3.5 decades. I don’t think a telepath was absent in any one of those comics. Admittedly, this of course, is far from a cohesive study. I would think though that the telepaths would be absent more if they weren’t amlost always included. Just saying.

  46. This is getting mean! How about we all get on the same page on one thing and decide where this battle will take place DC’s Metropolis, Marval’s New York, or a neutral City with no back-up.

  47. No, mightysam, I was listening, and I didn’t see any proof, either that Superman would come in swinging with all powers in play, or that the X-Men would inexplicably not bother to bring their telepath.

    Anyway, it’s true, I exaggerate for comic effect, because that’s what smart-asses do. If Batman wants an apology for being called a furry, I’ll give him one (I won’t even check his suit for signs of yiffing). But the fact remains, Batman basically wins (or even survives) fighting outside his weight class because of editorial mandate. Skill only takes you so far. A technically flawless professional flyweight boxer will almost never defeat an amateur heavyweight, for instance. That is, in fact, why there are weight classes. And why Batman’s own rogue gallery are all low- or no-power psychos.

    Basically, what I’m saying is, the fight would go to whoever the editors wanted to win. So as Novak said, first we have to find out where they’re fighting, as that will tell us who’s hosting, and whose editor is most likely to get his way!

  48. @MMI, see I have read almost every issue, and with the rare exception, there was always a telepath. The original team had Xavier,(Jean didn’t have control of telepathy yet), the 70’s team had Phoenix, the 80’s teams had Rachael, Xavier (in a cloned body with healed legs), and Psylocke. The 90’s team had Jean on Gold and Psylocke on Blue, and Xavier overseeing both teams. After the breakdown of the Blue/Gold teams, it kinda became more of a whomever we want in this issue until around the time of the first movie in 2000. By then you had Cable and Emma in the mix. So, by that time there were at least 4 full time telepaths on the team. The current team has trimmed down to just Emma.
    I will say that if it’s a straight up slugfest, and you take the telepaths out of the mix, the Superman would probably win. Jeff brought up a great point about Rogue in the opening, and again that depends on which version of Rogue you are using. If she still has Ms. Marvel’s powers, she’s got a chance to get up close to Supes, and zap his powers away. If it’s the more recent version, she’s got no chance. Colossus could put up a decent fight, but as shown waaaaay back in the 70’s when he fought Gladiator who is supposed to be Superman Level, he would get beat. Really, Superman’s biggest asset beside his powers is that the X-Men have to work as a team, and Supes can just swing away and not worry about who he’s hitting.

  49. I would also say it would depend on which version of the team you are talking about. Think about the Scarlett Witch for example. And as for Supes beating the Hulk, I believe that was the result of a vote so that isn’t a valid point to try and make. Jean Grey as the Phoenix would most likely have no problem with him.

  50. As for cyclops’s beam not hurting Supes, that’s just ridiculous. It wouldn’t hurt him much maybe but it could stun him and he would feel it.

  51. Actually, Michael, Supes and Hulk always fought with the editorial team, not the readers, picking the winner. Supes always won. Supes has also been able to fight telepathic enemies (granted when he’s ready for them, but stil) and real magic powers never really got anyone on a team of MUTANTS! Superman wins.

  52. Actually, Joe, Michael was referring to a more recent universe wide crossover event where readers voted on a number of one on one contests. It also included Wolverine beating Lobo, which has interesting implications for the X-men vs Superman contest…

  53. AS FAR AS I KNOW SUPERMAN IS OPEN TO MENTAL ATTACKS SO MRS GREY OR PROFESSOR X MAY HAVE A CHANCE AND ROGUE MAY BE ABLE TO DRAIN HIM SOME BUT THE OTHERS EVEN WITH ADAMANTIUM CLAWS, PLASMA BLASTS, OR FURRY FEET WOULDN’T HELP. I SAY SUPERMAN, BESIDES I MEAN COME ON HE’S SUPERMAN. HE WOULDN’T CHARGE IN LIKE A YOUNG PUP, HE KNOWS BATTLE STRATEGY AND STUFF, ONE QUESTION THOUGH…DOES THE MARVEL UNIVERSE HAVE KRYPTONITE?

  54. Nightcrawler teleports Rogue onto him – it’s over

    Strong enough telepathic blast – it’s over

    If the x-men include Alchemy, he can turn something to kryptonite – it’s over

  55. One question that no one has asked “Why are they fighting?”.
    In all most all of Supermans battles he is the face, the hero, so he needs to see himself in the right. Many of the x-men have been heels, villians, so they can fight with out being on the side of justice so to speak. With this battle and with Superman and how and how hard he will fight the question of “Why” he is fighting is very important.

  56. Beal, I have that series in graphic novel form, so I did what research I could on it. You beat me, to say the least. I was aware of the reader involvment in other matches, but not the Hulk Vs. Supes match. And to answer Tools question, kryptonite only exists in the DC multiverse. Frevoli, account for distance on Nightcrawlers teleportation (only a couple of miles at a time, I believe)and the telepathy (even professor x can read minds from a certain distance)and the amount of power Rouge can absorb (Supes has a practically infinite supply of power under earths, any earths, sun) and alchemy probably wouldn’t even know what kryptonite even is. Supes could just stay out of the range of Nightcrawler and the telepath in question, and he would pretty much kick their asses. Than there’s the fact Supes is fast enough to rival flash and the only speedster the x-men have, Quicksilver, can’t even compare to flash in most cases. Hulk and Thor are the only known Marvel characters that could match up to him in terms of strength and they aren’t exactly x-men. Supes wins.

  57. The movie while canonically impossible was great!(first class that is.)