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	<title>Comments on: Poll Position: What puts the Super in Superman?</title>
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		<title>By: kountkill</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15321</link>
		<dc:creator>kountkill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 03:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>What makes him Superman? It&#039;s not the Super in the Man, but rather the Man in the Super.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What makes him Superman? It&#8217;s not the Super in the Man, but rather the Man in the Super.</p>
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		<title>By: EnderX</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15172</link>
		<dc:creator>EnderX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heromachine.com/?p=4417#comment-15172</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure the official question and the unofficial one are really the same question.

The official question regards Superman; the version in the poll title even states &#039;what puts the Super in Superman?&#039;, but that&#039;s not the actual question being asked here.  The actual question is what Superman&#039;s one true defining characteristic is - and in my view, it&#039;s something that has little, if anything, to do with the &#039;super&#039; part of him.

What puts the Super in Superman?  For that question, it&#039;s his powers.  The whole set, not simply one specific power.  (Although you&#039;re free to ignore super-ventriloquism when considering that statement.)

What&#039;s Superman&#039;s truest defining characteristic?  That he&#039;s not, in fact, a &#039;superman&#039; at all, except for those powers.  In fact, an argument could be made that, in the most technical sense, he&#039;s only barely a hero, as the term was originally understood.

From what I&#039;ve read on the issue, in the original myths the term descends from a Hero was a semi-divine being - and by that standard, because of his powers, Superman sort of fits.  (If you&#039;re willing to waive the technicality that his powers are alien rather than divine in origin.)  But, that was the only requirement for the Hero title; consider that a selfish bastard (literally in this case) like Herakles could fit it.  Sure, Herakles did some things that were considered good, but just as often, he&#039;s the only one benefitting from his actions.

And Superman, for all his pseudo-divine powers, isn&#039;t a Hero in the mythic sense if this is the case.  He doesn&#039;t hold himself out as someone above the crowd, a raised figure who others should honor but not emulate.  If he&#039;d come to the earth fully-grown, Kal-L might have become these things.  But by coming as a child, Kal-L gained something else, thanks to John and Mary Kent.  (I&#039;m working with the Golden Age Superman here; the Silver Age Kal-El simply inherited the mantle his forebearer had woven.)  He gained a sense of humility, and humanity.

Superman isn&#039;t the semi-divine Hero raised up on a pedestal to worship; he&#039;s an Exalted Everyman; an ordinary person, albeit with extraordinary powers, who uses those powers the way other ordinary people might if they had them.  Remember, when Kal-L first took up the labors of Superman, he wasn&#039;t fighting against costumed villains as Kal-El does now.  In these latter days, when it&#039;s not uncommon to see Superman going up against practically anyone with a bad costume and an &quot;Evil and proud of it&quot; badge, it may be difficult to remember his origins.  But those origins, as much as anything else, are what makes Superman who he is.

&quot;Truth, Justice, and the American Way.&quot;  Kal-L fought those who harmed others, but who were, technically, just barely on the inside of the law.  He sought to provide for others the truth that those in power (even so simple a power as a company manager) might seek to hide.  He sought to provide justice, and a fair chance, to others - even at cost to himself; one of Superman&#039;s first major acts was to demolish a major, if delapilated, area of Metropolis, with the intent of forcing the hand of the government - with the old, dangerous buildings gone, the inhabitants of the area would be given new homes to live in.  This act was to brand Superman a public enemy for a while, a burden he willingly took on in order to provide assistance to those who it would benefit.

So, what really is Superman&#039;s defining characteristic?  If limited to the list at hand, I&#039;d have to say it&#039;s Clark Kent.  Not &quot;Clark Kent the disguise&quot;, which is how some have treated it, but &quot;Clark Kent the identity&quot;, or &quot;Clark Kent the man&quot;.  It&#039;s Clark Kent&#039;s humanity that transformed a simple &#039;Hero&#039; into the Everyman Legend that really makes Superman who he is - without that gift, he&#039;d be nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure the official question and the unofficial one are really the same question.</p>
<p>The official question regards Superman; the version in the poll title even states &#8216;what puts the Super in Superman?&#8217;, but that&#8217;s not the actual question being asked here.  The actual question is what Superman&#8217;s one true defining characteristic is &#8211; and in my view, it&#8217;s something that has little, if anything, to do with the &#8216;super&#8217; part of him.</p>
<p>What puts the Super in Superman?  For that question, it&#8217;s his powers.  The whole set, not simply one specific power.  (Although you&#8217;re free to ignore super-ventriloquism when considering that statement.)</p>
<p>What&#8217;s Superman&#8217;s truest defining characteristic?  That he&#8217;s not, in fact, a &#8216;superman&#8217; at all, except for those powers.  In fact, an argument could be made that, in the most technical sense, he&#8217;s only barely a hero, as the term was originally understood.</p>
<p>From what I&#8217;ve read on the issue, in the original myths the term descends from a Hero was a semi-divine being &#8211; and by that standard, because of his powers, Superman sort of fits.  (If you&#8217;re willing to waive the technicality that his powers are alien rather than divine in origin.)  But, that was the only requirement for the Hero title; consider that a selfish bastard (literally in this case) like Herakles could fit it.  Sure, Herakles did some things that were considered good, but just as often, he&#8217;s the only one benefitting from his actions.</p>
<p>And Superman, for all his pseudo-divine powers, isn&#8217;t a Hero in the mythic sense if this is the case.  He doesn&#8217;t hold himself out as someone above the crowd, a raised figure who others should honor but not emulate.  If he&#8217;d come to the earth fully-grown, Kal-L might have become these things.  But by coming as a child, Kal-L gained something else, thanks to John and Mary Kent.  (I&#8217;m working with the Golden Age Superman here; the Silver Age Kal-El simply inherited the mantle his forebearer had woven.)  He gained a sense of humility, and humanity.</p>
<p>Superman isn&#8217;t the semi-divine Hero raised up on a pedestal to worship; he&#8217;s an Exalted Everyman; an ordinary person, albeit with extraordinary powers, who uses those powers the way other ordinary people might if they had them.  Remember, when Kal-L first took up the labors of Superman, he wasn&#8217;t fighting against costumed villains as Kal-El does now.  In these latter days, when it&#8217;s not uncommon to see Superman going up against practically anyone with a bad costume and an &#8220;Evil and proud of it&#8221; badge, it may be difficult to remember his origins.  But those origins, as much as anything else, are what makes Superman who he is.</p>
<p>&#8220;Truth, Justice, and the American Way.&#8221;  Kal-L fought those who harmed others, but who were, technically, just barely on the inside of the law.  He sought to provide for others the truth that those in power (even so simple a power as a company manager) might seek to hide.  He sought to provide justice, and a fair chance, to others &#8211; even at cost to himself; one of Superman&#8217;s first major acts was to demolish a major, if delapilated, area of Metropolis, with the intent of forcing the hand of the government &#8211; with the old, dangerous buildings gone, the inhabitants of the area would be given new homes to live in.  This act was to brand Superman a public enemy for a while, a burden he willingly took on in order to provide assistance to those who it would benefit.</p>
<p>So, what really is Superman&#8217;s defining characteristic?  If limited to the list at hand, I&#8217;d have to say it&#8217;s Clark Kent.  Not &#8220;Clark Kent the disguise&#8221;, which is how some have treated it, but &#8220;Clark Kent the identity&#8221;, or &#8220;Clark Kent the man&#8221;.  It&#8217;s Clark Kent&#8217;s humanity that transformed a simple &#8216;Hero&#8217; into the Everyman Legend that really makes Superman who he is &#8211; without that gift, he&#8217;d be nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: darkvatican</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15171</link>
		<dc:creator>darkvatican</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 21:23:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heromachine.com/?p=4417#comment-15171</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think Superman is defined not by one simple thing, but because of them all and how long they have been just let to evolve beyond the original scope. Just like a classical myth should.&quot; - JInkieZoinks

Very good point here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think Superman is defined not by one simple thing, but because of them all and how long they have been just let to evolve beyond the original scope. Just like a classical myth should.&#8221; &#8211; JInkieZoinks</p>
<p>Very good point here.</p>
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		<title>By: JInkieZoinks</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15169</link>
		<dc:creator>JInkieZoinks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:44:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heromachine.com/?p=4417#comment-15169</guid>
		<description>This is a very loaded question, not because it lends itself to a certain point of view. But because it tries to single out one reason that Superman embodies the myth of a great hero. Which is the REAL reason superman is so iconic. It is a simple case of filling out all the boxes on a classical mythology checklist. As an example compare the Story of Hercules from ancient Greek myth to that of Clark Kent/ Superman, you&#039;ll find them VERY simular. Which is a good thing. because it means that in a few thousand years people will look back at our culture and see the story of Superman ranked right up there with the Illiad. I think Superman is defined not by one simple thing, but because of them all and how long they have been just let to evolve beyond the original scope. Just like a classical myth should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very loaded question, not because it lends itself to a certain point of view. But because it tries to single out one reason that Superman embodies the myth of a great hero. Which is the REAL reason superman is so iconic. It is a simple case of filling out all the boxes on a classical mythology checklist. As an example compare the Story of Hercules from ancient Greek myth to that of Clark Kent/ Superman, you&#8217;ll find them VERY simular. Which is a good thing. because it means that in a few thousand years people will look back at our culture and see the story of Superman ranked right up there with the Illiad. I think Superman is defined not by one simple thing, but because of them all and how long they have been just let to evolve beyond the original scope. Just like a classical myth should.</p>
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		<title>By: Rickss</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15165</link>
		<dc:creator>Rickss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 15:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heromachine.com/?p=4417#comment-15165</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not flight because he can run faster than a speeding bullet so he still has a way of transportation. 
It’s not super-strength because there way too many people with super-strength. 
The Big Red &quot;S&quot;...well, the thing that defines someone has to be something only they own and can&#039;t be copied. Steel has the big &quot;S&quot; so he could copy.
 I don&#039;t think it&#039;s the identity because lots of supers have secret identities and we are looking for the thing that defines Superman. Ok, without being raised by the Kents he wouldn&#039;t be the &quot;Idon&#039;tliketokillpeople&quot; guy. Buuut that was long ago, it&#039;s not the thing that defines Superman. 
Now...the code vs. killing is a difficult one. I think it really defines Superman because he might be the only one that really despises killing even his greatest enemies. While the other heroes are killing everybody crosses the line of the law, Superman always puts them in jail (ok, they often run away from it very easily (LL has a room for himself in prison so he can go on vacations there) but it&#039;s the intention that counts, right?). But other heroes don&#039;t like killing either (Spider-man for example...but he DOES beat the crap out of bad guys...). 
So, I go for invulnerability. For some reason he is known as the &quot;Man of Steel&quot;. The fact weapons just don&#039;t kill the guy made his character more unique because they had to get new ways of stopping him and when they could stop him the people could see that even someone who is invulnerable can be defeated (even if temporarily). I think the way he always fought against his brief moments of weakness inspired people (along with is kind hearth but that comes in second).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not flight because he can run faster than a speeding bullet so he still has a way of transportation.<br />
It’s not super-strength because there way too many people with super-strength.<br />
The Big Red &#8220;S&#8221;&#8230;well, the thing that defines someone has to be something only they own and can&#8217;t be copied. Steel has the big &#8220;S&#8221; so he could copy.<br />
 I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s the identity because lots of supers have secret identities and we are looking for the thing that defines Superman. Ok, without being raised by the Kents he wouldn&#8217;t be the &#8220;Idon&#8217;tliketokillpeople&#8221; guy. Buuut that was long ago, it&#8217;s not the thing that defines Superman.<br />
Now&#8230;the code vs. killing is a difficult one. I think it really defines Superman because he might be the only one that really despises killing even his greatest enemies. While the other heroes are killing everybody crosses the line of the law, Superman always puts them in jail (ok, they often run away from it very easily (LL has a room for himself in prison so he can go on vacations there) but it&#8217;s the intention that counts, right?). But other heroes don&#8217;t like killing either (Spider-man for example&#8230;but he DOES beat the crap out of bad guys&#8230;).<br />
So, I go for invulnerability. For some reason he is known as the &#8220;Man of Steel&#8221;. The fact weapons just don&#8217;t kill the guy made his character more unique because they had to get new ways of stopping him and when they could stop him the people could see that even someone who is invulnerable can be defeated (even if temporarily). I think the way he always fought against his brief moments of weakness inspired people (along with is kind hearth but that comes in second).</p>
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		<title>By: Runt82</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15163</link>
		<dc:creator>Runt82</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 11:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heromachine.com/?p=4417#comment-15163</guid>
		<description>It was a real toss up for me between invulnerability and his code vs. killing.  If I had to choose just one, I&#039;d say his code of ethics, because if Superman ever killed someone, he&#039;d be a darker superhero or worse he&#039;d become a villain.  This being said, the one thing that usually pops up in my mind first when I hear Superman&#039;s name is his invulnerability and how nothing but a glowing green rock could hurt him.  So, I voted for his &quot;code vs. killing&quot; but invulnerability is a very, very close second.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a real toss up for me between invulnerability and his code vs. killing.  If I had to choose just one, I&#8217;d say his code of ethics, because if Superman ever killed someone, he&#8217;d be a darker superhero or worse he&#8217;d become a villain.  This being said, the one thing that usually pops up in my mind first when I hear Superman&#8217;s name is his invulnerability and how nothing but a glowing green rock could hurt him.  So, I voted for his &#8220;code vs. killing&#8221; but invulnerability is a very, very close second.</p>
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		<title>By: Fishpants</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15160</link>
		<dc:creator>Fishpants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 03:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heromachine.com/?p=4417#comment-15160</guid>
		<description>Wow, good question.  A couple of books come to mind...

First, there&#039;s a very interesting book called The Psychology of Superheroes, which is just what it sounds like.  One of the essays in it is about what Superman would be like if he grew up in New York City.  The conclusion it reaches is that he wouldn&#039;t be Superman without being raised in Kansas by the Kents. That gives him his moral center.

Second, in Kurt Busiek&#039;s Secret Identity, he talks about Superman as a parallel to growing up, boyhood vs. manhood and reaching our full potential. I never really &#039;got&#039; Superman before that, but I can see it that way.  If he represents the potential in each of us to be the best we can be, I think it&#039;s the code that makes him Superman. The symbol and all the powers are part of it, but the code makes him who he is.

We&#039;re deep into myth territory here.  If you have a character who can do all the stuff Superman can do, what makes him human? What makes us give a crap about him? It&#039;s what he chooses not to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, good question.  A couple of books come to mind&#8230;</p>
<p>First, there&#8217;s a very interesting book called The Psychology of Superheroes, which is just what it sounds like.  One of the essays in it is about what Superman would be like if he grew up in New York City.  The conclusion it reaches is that he wouldn&#8217;t be Superman without being raised in Kansas by the Kents. That gives him his moral center.</p>
<p>Second, in Kurt Busiek&#8217;s Secret Identity, he talks about Superman as a parallel to growing up, boyhood vs. manhood and reaching our full potential. I never really &#8216;got&#8217; Superman before that, but I can see it that way.  If he represents the potential in each of us to be the best we can be, I think it&#8217;s the code that makes him Superman. The symbol and all the powers are part of it, but the code makes him who he is.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re deep into myth territory here.  If you have a character who can do all the stuff Superman can do, what makes him human? What makes us give a crap about him? It&#8217;s what he chooses not to do.</p>
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		<title>By: William A. Peterson</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15159</link>
		<dc:creator>William A. Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heromachine.com/?p=4417#comment-15159</guid>
		<description>Part of it&#039;s the &quot;Clark Kent&quot; identity...
Not the glasses, and the spitcurl, but the whole &quot;Raised by farm folk in Kansas&quot; thing, the morality, the humility, and the simplicity of the man.
That&#039;s really where the &quot;Code versus Killing&quot; comes from, as well as the tendency to pull his punches, to always have a good word for other heroes, the whole &#039;cornball&#039; routine.
&quot;JLA vs. Avengers&quot; got that part right...
The Marvel Universe is greatly diminished because it doesn&#039;t have a Superman!
Cap tried, but, ultimately, he was mortal...
{Don&#039;t bother telling me how they&#039;re bringing him back, because that really doesn&#039;t matter, any more!}
And, partly, it&#039;s because (Prince Namor&#039;s appearances to one side), he was the first...
His name defines the term &quot;Superhero&quot;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of it&#8217;s the &#8220;Clark Kent&#8221; identity&#8230;<br />
Not the glasses, and the spitcurl, but the whole &#8220;Raised by farm folk in Kansas&#8221; thing, the morality, the humility, and the simplicity of the man.<br />
That&#8217;s really where the &#8220;Code versus Killing&#8221; comes from, as well as the tendency to pull his punches, to always have a good word for other heroes, the whole &#8216;cornball&#8217; routine.<br />
&#8220;JLA vs. Avengers&#8221; got that part right&#8230;<br />
The Marvel Universe is greatly diminished because it doesn&#8217;t have a Superman!<br />
Cap tried, but, ultimately, he was mortal&#8230;<br />
{Don&#8217;t bother telling me how they&#8217;re bringing him back, because that really doesn&#8217;t matter, any more!}<br />
And, partly, it&#8217;s because (Prince Namor&#8217;s appearances to one side), he was the first&#8230;<br />
His name defines the term &#8220;Superhero&#8221;!</p>
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		<title>By: Joshua</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15157</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 02:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heromachine.com/?p=4417#comment-15157</guid>
		<description>Without &quot;Clark Kent&quot; then what you have is a Kryptonian named Kal-El whose starship could have landed anywhere, at anytime. Numerous Elseworlds have addressed this and have given us a &quot;Superman&quot; from Soviet Russia, Apokolips, in Gotham City raised by the Waynes, and so on and so forth. But it is his upbringing by Jonathan and Martha Kent that gave the world the Superman we know. However...if you&#039;re talking about the public &quot;persona&quot; of Clark Kent, then no, he doesn&#039;t need it. Eventually he will have to put &quot;Clark Kent&quot; to rest, and it&#039;s funny: Superman is as much an act that Clark Kent/Kal-El puts on for the public just like the bumbling goof &quot;Clark Kent&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without &#8220;Clark Kent&#8221; then what you have is a Kryptonian named Kal-El whose starship could have landed anywhere, at anytime. Numerous Elseworlds have addressed this and have given us a &#8220;Superman&#8221; from Soviet Russia, Apokolips, in Gotham City raised by the Waynes, and so on and so forth. But it is his upbringing by Jonathan and Martha Kent that gave the world the Superman we know. However&#8230;if you&#8217;re talking about the public &#8220;persona&#8221; of Clark Kent, then no, he doesn&#8217;t need it. Eventually he will have to put &#8220;Clark Kent&#8221; to rest, and it&#8217;s funny: Superman is as much an act that Clark Kent/Kal-El puts on for the public just like the bumbling goof &#8220;Clark Kent&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Timespike</title>
		<link>http://www.heromachine.com/2009/07/06/poll-position-what-puts-the-super-in-superman/#comment-15154</link>
		<dc:creator>Timespike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 00:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.heromachine.com/?p=4417#comment-15154</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d say the code. That much power without that much restraint becomes something much, much darker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d say the code. That much power without that much restraint becomes something much, much darker.</p>
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